<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Bank&#8217;s Bad Math &#8211; Home Price Indexing Responsible</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/</link>
	<description>Your personal tour guide through the housing finance "misinformation maze".</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 13:28:04 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: mortgage analyst</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6436</link>
		<dc:creator>mortgage analyst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 11:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6436</guid>
		<description>Some more facts:

The GSE book is performing at around 1% seriously delinquent

It&#039;s not just the percent of loans that are subprime vs prime, it&#039;s when those loans were originated.  Nationally, the GSE share became very small in 2006 &amp; 2007 and non-agency subprime and AltA loans became about half the market.  So, the GSE loans have suffered much less house price decline than the non-agency loans.  In Antioch, for instance, my guess is that close to 80% of all the 2006 &amp; 2007 loans are non-agency in Antioch.

Finally, close to 80% of GSE loans had a 20% downpayment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some more facts:</p>
<p>The GSE book is performing at around 1% seriously delinquent</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just the percent of loans that are subprime vs prime, it&#8217;s when those loans were originated.  Nationally, the GSE share became very small in 2006 &amp; 2007 and non-agency subprime and AltA loans became about half the market.  So, the GSE loans have suffered much less house price decline than the non-agency loans.  In Antioch, for instance, my guess is that close to 80% of all the 2006 &amp; 2007 loans are non-agency in Antioch.</p>
<p>Finally, close to 80% of GSE loans had a 20% downpayment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6428</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 04:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6428</guid>
		<description>GSE paper - in Antioch values are down 70% and it is a heavier subprime region. However, subprime may only consist of 20% of all loans. The rest are Alt-A, Prime and Jumbo Prime. By virtue of values dropping 70% from the peak and being back at 2001 or prior levels, those higher grade loans just because multiple grades lower. Especially given the the higher grade paper in recent years allows 50%+ debt to income ratios. When at least 50% of your gross income is going into your home that is now several hundred thousand dollars underwater, walking away makes good financial sense. Thats why we see defaults in real time of the highest grade &#039;a&#039; paper loans surging in these areas. It is the negative equity effect in living color.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GSE paper &#8211; in Antioch values are down 70% and it is a heavier subprime region. However, subprime may only consist of 20% of all loans. The rest are Alt-A, Prime and Jumbo Prime. By virtue of values dropping 70% from the peak and being back at 2001 or prior levels, those higher grade loans just because multiple grades lower. Especially given the the higher grade paper in recent years allows 50%+ debt to income ratios. When at least 50% of your gross income is going into your home that is now several hundred thousand dollars underwater, walking away makes good financial sense. Thats why we see defaults in real time of the highest grade &#8216;a&#8217; paper loans surging in these areas. It is the negative equity effect in living color.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mortgage analyst</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6426</link>
		<dc:creator>mortgage analyst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 02:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6426</guid>
		<description>As correctly noted by the first poster, many folks do employ zip level models.  But you do have a point that many do not.  

There are two other errors in your post:

1)  It is not the median value that matters, it is the same sale repeat index that matters.  You compare median sales value to repeat sales indices.  This doesn&#039;t make sense.

2)  You first make the point that the subprime loans are in Antioch, not in Tiburon but then claim that GSE paper is also in trouble.  Well, your same observation is true for the GSE loans compared to the subprime loans, they are not in the same place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As correctly noted by the first poster, many folks do employ zip level models.  But you do have a point that many do not.  </p>
<p>There are two other errors in your post:</p>
<p>1)  It is not the median value that matters, it is the same sale repeat index that matters.  You compare median sales value to repeat sales indices.  This doesn&#8217;t make sense.</p>
<p>2)  You first make the point that the subprime loans are in Antioch, not in Tiburon but then claim that GSE paper is also in trouble.  Well, your same observation is true for the GSE loans compared to the subprime loans, they are not in the same place.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DAve</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6416</link>
		<dc:creator>DAve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6416</guid>
		<description>&quot;Walking away&quot; needs to become much more expensive and difficult.

As it is now it&#039;s too &quot;rational&quot; and as a result we have our neighbors&#039; failure to abide by the terms of their contracts taking all of the rest of us down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Walking away&#8221; needs to become much more expensive and difficult.</p>
<p>As it is now it&#8217;s too &#8220;rational&#8221; and as a result we have our neighbors&#8217; failure to abide by the terms of their contracts taking all of the rest of us down.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Toby</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6413</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6413</guid>
		<description>MM, We do indeed use local level data in valuing these mortgages.  We go one better and typically get random drive-by appraisals (experienced appraisers working for us) to audit the values.  This is not really that hard to get &quot;as of today&quot; values on these properties.  The real killer is trying to figure out how much further the asset prices are going to fall, and what impact that will have on loan performance.  You have already illustrated in many articles the propensity for people to walk away from negative equity positions even if they can affort the payments.  The recession, or whatever you want to call it, is the real wild card in ALL of these models.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MM, We do indeed use local level data in valuing these mortgages.  We go one better and typically get random drive-by appraisals (experienced appraisers working for us) to audit the values.  This is not really that hard to get &#8220;as of today&#8221; values on these properties.  The real killer is trying to figure out how much further the asset prices are going to fall, and what impact that will have on loan performance.  You have already illustrated in many articles the propensity for people to walk away from negative equity positions even if they can affort the payments.  The recession, or whatever you want to call it, is the real wild card in ALL of these models.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Taxpayer</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6412</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6412</guid>
		<description>Wonder at what price this bailout plan will buy these insolvent assets? 50% price drop needs 100% gain just to break even. Taxpayers are in this investement for long haul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonder at what price this bailout plan will buy these insolvent assets? 50% price drop needs 100% gain just to break even. Taxpayers are in this investement for long haul.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HousingRealist</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6402</link>
		<dc:creator>HousingRealist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6402</guid>
		<description>The reason the banks don&#039;t sell the assets, is because they can&#039;t sell the assets at those prices.  It is called insolvent.  

Balance Sheet Before

Assets                 Liabilities/Equity

1000                        88
                            12

Balance Sheet After  (BK)
                       
Assets                 Liabilities/Equity

80                          88
                            0 or (-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason the banks don&#8217;t sell the assets, is because they can&#8217;t sell the assets at those prices.  It is called insolvent.  </p>
<p>Balance Sheet Before</p>
<p>Assets                 Liabilities/Equity</p>
<p>1000                        88<br />
                            12</p>
<p>Balance Sheet After  (BK)</p>
<p>Assets                 Liabilities/Equity</p>
<p>80                          88<br />
                            0 or (-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: commonsense</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6400</link>
		<dc:creator>commonsense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6400</guid>
		<description>This gets at the whole point of Paulson Plan.

These securities can be underwritten and valued by rational parties.  But there is NO BID today because all the opportunistic capital is waiting for the next shoe to drop.  The only bid is predatory - like Lone Star taking Merrill to the cleaners.

If Treasury has $700BN to BID with, hungry money will come off the sidelines.  If the Feds are paying too little, others will overbid.  If the Feds are getting everything they&#039;re overpaying (and if managed by folks like Gross this won&#039;t happen).  Once markets are again being made, the issue goes away.  In all likelihood the taxpayers spend a fraction of the $700BN, but Paulson needs a big number so everyone knows he&#039;s real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This gets at the whole point of Paulson Plan.</p>
<p>These securities can be underwritten and valued by rational parties.  But there is NO BID today because all the opportunistic capital is waiting for the next shoe to drop.  The only bid is predatory &#8211; like Lone Star taking Merrill to the cleaners.</p>
<p>If Treasury has $700BN to BID with, hungry money will come off the sidelines.  If the Feds are paying too little, others will overbid.  If the Feds are getting everything they&#8217;re overpaying (and if managed by folks like Gross this won&#8217;t happen).  Once markets are again being made, the issue goes away.  In all likelihood the taxpayers spend a fraction of the $700BN, but Paulson needs a big number so everyone knows he&#8217;s real.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Out at the Peak</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6399</link>
		<dc:creator>Out at the Peak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6399</guid>
		<description>The CDO structures have a lot of indirection that makes it fuzzy on marking the values correctly for each payout tier. Many CDOs were made out of pure junk so first they should not be considered A paper in anyway.

A bigger problem is that just because a $500K mortgage was issued in area X a year ago, it could easily be down more than the home price index. There was appraisal fraud just to make loans happen (or else the appraiser could be blacklisted for future work). The 25% and 75% percentiles move at different speeds than the median house price index.

For this to work, there would have to be a lot of normalization of data which would take a lot of due diligence that was skipped when the mortgage was issued.

These assets need to be priced lower than current market value because we all know loan defaulting and house depreciation will continue, but also their initial values are essentially indeterminate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The CDO structures have a lot of indirection that makes it fuzzy on marking the values correctly for each payout tier. Many CDOs were made out of pure junk so first they should not be considered A paper in anyway.</p>
<p>A bigger problem is that just because a $500K mortgage was issued in area X a year ago, it could easily be down more than the home price index. There was appraisal fraud just to make loans happen (or else the appraiser could be blacklisted for future work). The 25% and 75% percentiles move at different speeds than the median house price index.</p>
<p>For this to work, there would have to be a lot of normalization of data which would take a lot of due diligence that was skipped when the mortgage was issued.</p>
<p>These assets need to be priced lower than current market value because we all know loan defaulting and house depreciation will continue, but also their initial values are essentially indeterminate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tony Buzan</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/09/30/banks-bad-math-home-price-indexing-responsible/comment-page-1/#comment-6396</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Buzan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=310#comment-6396</guid>
		<description>Matt Dubuque

The interbank lending market remains in a coma threatening us all, irrespective of what the Dow Jones Industrial Average may be doing on a short-term basis.

As Senior Economist Gordon Sellon of the Kansas City Federal Reserve discussed in his seminal paper &quot;Monetary Policy and the Zero Bound: Policy Options When Short-Term Rates Reach Zero&quot; published in the Fourth Quarter 2003 edition of the Kansas City Federal Reserve&#039;s &quot;Economic Review&quot;, the Federal Reserve should now consider under taking &quot;twist&quot; operations in the open market.

That paper is available here at the bottom of the link:

http://tinyurl.com/4o9a82

A &quot;twist&quot; operation by the Federal Reserve in the current context would consist of the Fed SELLING 3-month Treasury Bills while simultaneously PURCHASING 5-year Treasury Notes.  Such operations, applied judiciously, would affect the term structure of various markets in a positive way.

Such &quot;twist&quot; operations are not without precedent.  It was performed during the Kennedy Administration:

http://tinyurl.com/524lk5

I urge people to STUDY Sellon&#039;s critical paper at the link provided above to grasp some of the subtleties involved here before engaging in uninformed knee-jerk criticism.

This is not a cure-all, but it is clear that it should be on the short list of our policy options.


Matt Dubuque
mdubuque@yahoo.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Dubuque</p>
<p>The interbank lending market remains in a coma threatening us all, irrespective of what the Dow Jones Industrial Average may be doing on a short-term basis.</p>
<p>As Senior Economist Gordon Sellon of the Kansas City Federal Reserve discussed in his seminal paper &#8220;Monetary Policy and the Zero Bound: Policy Options When Short-Term Rates Reach Zero&#8221; published in the Fourth Quarter 2003 edition of the Kansas City Federal Reserve&#8217;s &#8220;Economic Review&#8221;, the Federal Reserve should now consider under taking &#8220;twist&#8221; operations in the open market.</p>
<p>That paper is available here at the bottom of the link:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/4o9a82" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/4o9a82</a></p>
<p>A &#8220;twist&#8221; operation by the Federal Reserve in the current context would consist of the Fed SELLING 3-month Treasury Bills while simultaneously PURCHASING 5-year Treasury Notes.  Such operations, applied judiciously, would affect the term structure of various markets in a positive way.</p>
<p>Such &#8220;twist&#8221; operations are not without precedent.  It was performed during the Kennedy Administration:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/524lk5" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/524lk5</a></p>
<p>I urge people to STUDY Sellon&#8217;s critical paper at the link provided above to grasp some of the subtleties involved here before engaging in uninformed knee-jerk criticism.</p>
<p>This is not a cure-all, but it is clear that it should be on the short list of our policy options.</p>
<p>Matt Dubuque<br />
<a href="mailto:mdubuque@yahoo.com">mdubuque@yahoo.com</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
