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	<title>Comments on: Pandora&#8217;s Box &#8211; Prime Mortgages May Get Transparency</title>
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	<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/</link>
	<description>Your personal tour guide through the housing finance "misinformation maze".</description>
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		<title>By: 12yr_mtgpro</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9804</link>
		<dc:creator>12yr_mtgpro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9804</guid>
		<description>There is a simple solution to the &quot;liar loan&quot; lenders just need to change how they evaluate a business owners income and make it &quot;full doc&quot; forever.  Lenders have always penalized the self employed in terms of qualification for a loan in how they underwrite a persons tax returns etc.  Heck half of the time I have to show them how to read tax returns and apply their own guidelines to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a simple solution to the &#8220;liar loan&#8221; lenders just need to change how they evaluate a business owners income and make it &#8220;full doc&#8221; forever.  Lenders have always penalized the self employed in terms of qualification for a loan in how they underwrite a persons tax returns etc.  Heck half of the time I have to show them how to read tax returns and apply their own guidelines to them.</p>
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		<title>By: BertDilbert</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9755</link>
		<dc:creator>BertDilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9755</guid>
		<description>CanadianJack

Liar loans were designed for business owners who for one reason or another are unable to show documented income like an employee.  In a normal non manipulated market they work. In an inflated value market where the loan officer is pushed to make a number, they don&#039;t.  In a euphoric bubble market they obviously are going to be abused.

Unfortunately, the abuse of the liar loan will make this product disappear entirely for some time, excluding those for whom it was designed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CanadianJack</p>
<p>Liar loans were designed for business owners who for one reason or another are unable to show documented income like an employee.  In a normal non manipulated market they work. In an inflated value market where the loan officer is pushed to make a number, they don&#8217;t.  In a euphoric bubble market they obviously are going to be abused.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the abuse of the liar loan will make this product disappear entirely for some time, excluding those for whom it was designed.</p>
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		<title>By: CanadianJack</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9752</link>
		<dc:creator>CanadianJack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9752</guid>
		<description>I just can&#039;t wrap my head around these &quot;liar loans&quot;. Stated income? I can&#039;t even use that on my student loan application or a credit card application, which is for hundreds of thousands of dollars less, and they check with Revenue Canada (IRS). 

Even if a bank was prudent, and verified every detail, and lent only to Prime borrowers at reasonable debt/income ratios, they would still be hit hard. People would just walk away due to all the other homes on the block dropping in value. 

Every bank needs to be prudent, and you need to government to be there to make sure they all play fair. Its just amazing how a change in leverage limit law, and a few years of turning a blind eye can create the largest housing crash (ever?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just can&#8217;t wrap my head around these &#8220;liar loans&#8221;. Stated income? I can&#8217;t even use that on my student loan application or a credit card application, which is for hundreds of thousands of dollars less, and they check with Revenue Canada (IRS). </p>
<p>Even if a bank was prudent, and verified every detail, and lent only to Prime borrowers at reasonable debt/income ratios, they would still be hit hard. People would just walk away due to all the other homes on the block dropping in value. </p>
<p>Every bank needs to be prudent, and you need to government to be there to make sure they all play fair. Its just amazing how a change in leverage limit law, and a few years of turning a blind eye can create the largest housing crash (ever?)</p>
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		<title>By: Matt_Swanholm</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9750</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt_Swanholm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9750</guid>
		<description>You meant to say &quot;50% debt-to-income ratio&quot; in the 3rd paragraph, no?  Banks WISH they&#039;d confined prime loans to 50% LTV....though in certain parts of CA even that may not save them.

Keep up the good fight.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You meant to say &#8220;50% debt-to-income ratio&#8221; in the 3rd paragraph, no?  Banks WISH they&#8217;d confined prime loans to 50% LTV&#8230;.though in certain parts of CA even that may not save them.</p>
<p>Keep up the good fight&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: BertDilbert</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9749</link>
		<dc:creator>BertDilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9749</guid>
		<description>Admin

While transparency would seem logical, let&#039;s look at who Markit is.  Meanwhile you can submit your ideas here.

http://www.markit.com/information/contact/eureka.html

Let&#039;s review 

&quot;About Markit
Markit is a financial information services company with over 1000 employees in Europe, North America and Asia-Pacific. 

Markit was founded in 2001 as the first independent source of credit derivative pricing. Today, our data, valuations and trade processing services are regarded as the market standard in the global financial markets, helping our clients to reduce risk and improve operational efficiency. 

Markit has unparalleled access to a valuable dataset spanning credit, equities and the broader OTC derivative universe and we work closely with leading market makers to develop innovative solutions for the marketplace. 

Our clients include investment banks, hedge funds, asset managers, central banks, regulators, rating agencies and insurance companies - we provide round-the-clock support from our offices in London, New York, Dallas, Toronto, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Luxembourg, Tokyo and Singapore.&quot;

The problem as I see it, is that the products that you are trying to bring transparency to are the very same assets that are on the primary client&#039;s balance sheet.  The developers of the derivative market are the ones that provide Markit the data that they require to exist.  It appears what we have here is the old Mexican Standoff.

When you look at the primary dealers in the derivative market, you have a &quot;Who&#039;s Who&quot; of who has assets on the Federal Reserve balance sheet, the dirty laundry.  Nobody wants you to know how dirty that laundry actually is, how fast it is getting dirty, or how many tons of Tide it is going to take to get that clean.  Understandably, Markit would be coming under extreme pressure.  Markit says that they were the first, so that may mean that there are others you could try if they bow out.

On another subject, for the historical types that might want a feel for what is going on behind the closed doors of the Fed, may want to travel back to the last big Mexican Peso crisis in 1995 where juggling was done and issues between the Fed and Treasury.  I read this about 5 years ago. I find these things fascinating, the majority likely think it is BOARING as hell, lol.  Start PDF page 119, document page 117

http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/FOMC19950201meeting.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admin</p>
<p>While transparency would seem logical, let&#8217;s look at who Markit is.  Meanwhile you can submit your ideas here.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.markit.com/information/contact/eureka.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.markit.com/information/contact/eureka.html</a></p>
<p>Let&#8217;s review </p>
<p>&#8220;About Markit<br />
Markit is a financial information services company with over 1000 employees in Europe, North America and Asia-Pacific. </p>
<p>Markit was founded in 2001 as the first independent source of credit derivative pricing. Today, our data, valuations and trade processing services are regarded as the market standard in the global financial markets, helping our clients to reduce risk and improve operational efficiency. </p>
<p>Markit has unparalleled access to a valuable dataset spanning credit, equities and the broader OTC derivative universe and we work closely with leading market makers to develop innovative solutions for the marketplace. </p>
<p>Our clients include investment banks, hedge funds, asset managers, central banks, regulators, rating agencies and insurance companies &#8211; we provide round-the-clock support from our offices in London, New York, Dallas, Toronto, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Luxembourg, Tokyo and Singapore.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem as I see it, is that the products that you are trying to bring transparency to are the very same assets that are on the primary client&#8217;s balance sheet.  The developers of the derivative market are the ones that provide Markit the data that they require to exist.  It appears what we have here is the old Mexican Standoff.</p>
<p>When you look at the primary dealers in the derivative market, you have a &#8220;Who&#8217;s Who&#8221; of who has assets on the Federal Reserve balance sheet, the dirty laundry.  Nobody wants you to know how dirty that laundry actually is, how fast it is getting dirty, or how many tons of Tide it is going to take to get that clean.  Understandably, Markit would be coming under extreme pressure.  Markit says that they were the first, so that may mean that there are others you could try if they bow out.</p>
<p>On another subject, for the historical types that might want a feel for what is going on behind the closed doors of the Fed, may want to travel back to the last big Mexican Peso crisis in 1995 where juggling was done and issues between the Fed and Treasury.  I read this about 5 years ago. I find these things fascinating, the majority likely think it is BOARING as hell, lol.  Start PDF page 119, document page 117</p>
<p><a href="http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/FOMC19950201meeting.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/FOMC19950201meeting.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Links 12/21/08 &#124; Bear Market Investments</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9748</link>
		<dc:creator>Links 12/21/08 &#124; Bear Market Investments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9748</guid>
		<description>[...] Pandora’s Box - Prime Mortgages May Get Transparency Mr. Mortgage [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pandora’s Box &#8211; Prime Mortgages May Get Transparency Mr. Mortgage [...]</p>
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		<title>By: peterb</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9746</link>
		<dc:creator>peterb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9746</guid>
		<description>I cannot understand why rating agencies have not been held more accountable in this entire mortgage melt-down for the last year? Hello, it&#039;s their business to verify value and accuracy of these things. It&#039;s why they exist! Kinda hard to deny, isnt it???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot understand why rating agencies have not been held more accountable in this entire mortgage melt-down for the last year? Hello, it&#8217;s their business to verify value and accuracy of these things. It&#8217;s why they exist! Kinda hard to deny, isnt it???</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9745</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9745</guid>
		<description>Be sure to MA - this is exactly the type of transparency is needed to bring stability back to the market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be sure to MA &#8211; this is exactly the type of transparency is needed to bring stability back to the market.</p>
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		<title>By: mortgage analayst</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9742</link>
		<dc:creator>mortgage analayst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9742</guid>
		<description>Mr. Mortgage,

I know many of the folks at Markit and they consult me regularly on their product roadmaps.  I plan to call them on Monday to let them know how disappointed I will be if they listen to anything you have to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Mortgage,</p>
<p>I know many of the folks at Markit and they consult me regularly on their product roadmaps.  I plan to call them on Monday to let them know how disappointed I will be if they listen to anything you have to say.</p>
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		<title>By: fatboyglen</title>
		<link>http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/12/20/mortgage-debt-is-more-toxic-than-most-think-even-prime-loansmbs/comment-page-1/#comment-9740</link>
		<dc:creator>fatboyglen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/?p=1164#comment-9740</guid>
		<description>i just don&#039;t get it.  Why everyone continues to worry about past guidelines and what went wrong.  Why the negativity and not focus on how to turn this thing positive.  Underwriting guidelines...lmao.....as long as companies continue to use credit scores as their main guide for risk guidelines are irrelevat.  Underwriting??  At this point in the market does it matter if you are at 75% or 100% if your borrower is going to pay??  Until common sense comes back into &quot;underwriting&quot; and some common sense guidelines return you may as well move to Cuba.  This just an 18yr. experience view.  thanks for all the info.   i enjoy reading different views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i just don&#8217;t get it.  Why everyone continues to worry about past guidelines and what went wrong.  Why the negativity and not focus on how to turn this thing positive.  Underwriting guidelines&#8230;lmao&#8230;..as long as companies continue to use credit scores as their main guide for risk guidelines are irrelevat.  Underwriting??  At this point in the market does it matter if you are at 75% or 100% if your borrower is going to pay??  Until common sense comes back into &#8220;underwriting&#8221; and some common sense guidelines return you may as well move to Cuba.  This just an 18yr. experience view.  thanks for all the info.   i enjoy reading different views.</p>
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